11 Ways You Can Quickly Increase Sales, Revenue and Profit

Posted by Dave Kurlan on Wed, Jul 13, 2016 @ 14:07 PM

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Verne Harnish is the President of Gazelles - the coaching organization that helps fast growth companies.  In addition to his best-selling books, Mastering the Rockefeller Habits and his latest, Scaling Up, he writes the Weekly Insights, which I always read from top to bottom.  In his June 30 insights, Verne included a quote from Greg Brenneman, author of Right Away and All at Once - 5 Steps to Transform Your Business and Enrich Your Life.  Verne really liked Greg's emphasis on how to drive sales.  Greg says, "Empirical evidence shows that you get at least four times the market value for a dollar of profit that comes from revenue growth versus a dollar of profit that comes from cost reduction."  

Isn't that a great quote?  But it's more than a quote.  It's a blueprint!  Let's discuss some of the ways that you can achieve the desired revenue growth.

I have encountered far too many companies that expect their growth to come from acquisitions, or their increase in profit from cost-cutting and it never made any sense to me.  With as much data as we have at Objective Management Group (OMG), we didn't have that 4x data.  I love it!

So the question to ask is, how can any company organically increase its revenue, beginning today?

From 30,000 feet, there are eleven possibilities:

  • Expand your channel(s)
  • Add salespeople to your existing geography and/or territories
  • Replace under performing salespeople
  • Raise prices
  • Add products or product lines
  • Expand your geography and/or territory
  • Improve sales performance
  • Improve sales management effectiveness
  • Improve sales strategies
  • Improve sales systems and processes
  • Expand business within existing customers

From my 30 years of experience helping companies do many of these things, the easiest and fastest of these is the price increase.  Most companies handle price increases very poorly, over complicate it, ineffectively communicate it, and manage to somehow get their sales force distracted for months by this simple step.

I worked with one company in Los Angeles that everyone knows and visits and we needed to change three months of sales training where we were working on their consultative approach and refocus on how to deliver the message of the price increase.  All of that focus on price made them nervous, negative, and took them off message.  It would have been much more effective to simply ignore the change and handle it when customers asked!

Replacing under performing salespeople and adding salespeople works - but only if you are significantly better at hiring the new ones than you were at hiring the old ones.  If your recruiting and selection process haven't undergone significant changes, you might select salespeople who are even more ineffective than the salespeople being replaced!  Check out the leading sales candidate assessment to drastically improve sales selection.

Expanding business within existing customers is a lot more challenging for salespeople than it should be.  At this point in time they probably have great relationships and won't want to jeopardize those relationships by pushing for more, especially if the customer believes they are already buying as much as they can from you.  In this case their need to be liked is a huge weakness.  Read this article for more on how the need to be liked limits sales effectiveness.

Geographic and Channel Expansions are expensive and take time.  While they usually pay off in the long term, they suck up resources, spread the leadership team thin, and the move is often risky and frustrating.

Adding Products can open new doors and increase revenue from existing accounts.  However, your existing salespeople are typically creatures of habit and often struggle with new products.  You'll probably have to bring on new salespeople if you want new product lines to successfully add revenue to your top line.

Companies get the biggest bang for their buck when they focus on Improving overall sales performance, sales management effectiveness, sales strategies, systems and processes.  These tend to be some of the most cost-effective, fast-working, long-lasting changes a company can make to increase revenue.  Read this article and this article for more on Sales Process.  The most important thing to be aware of with this particular choice is that the improvements become an integral part of your sales culture and continue to pay dividends in the near and distant future.

There are several ways to achieve revenue growth but some will work 4 times better than others. 

Topics: Dave Kurlan, sales process, verne harnish, Rockefeller Habits, scaling up, greg brenneman

Quadruple Dittos Motivate Your Sales Team to Achieve

Posted by Dave Kurlan on Tue, Apr 05, 2016 @ 20:04 PM

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If you follow sports - even a little - then you know about special sports achievements.  The Hat Trick is pretty special in Hockey, The Cycle and the No-Hitter in Baseball represent near-perfect games, the Ace or the Hole-in-One is an ultimate score in Golf, and the Triple-Double represents the ultimate achievement in a Basketball game.  Yes, I know I left out Soccer - again - but I just don't know enough. [Update - Barry Hall wrote that Soccer has a Hat Trick - when an individual scores 3 goals in one game.]

When Verne Harnish published Mastering The Rockefeller Habits, the precursor to his current book, Scaling Up: How a Few Companies Make it and the Rest Don't (Rockefeller Habits 2.0), I followed his suggestion and began leading a daily huddle with my leadership team at Objective Management Group. In addition to reporting on the KPI's for which they are responsible, each leader mentions a victory or something exciting.  On yesterday's huddle, we achieved the equivalent of one of those great sports moments when we had a Quadruple Ditto.  What's a Quadruple Ditto and why is that important to you?

A Quadruple Ditto (we made it up) occurs when the thing that has excited the first leader excites each subsequent leader equally, causing them to say, "Ditto."  When at least 4 leaders say, "Ditto" we have achieved a Quadruple Ditto.

Now you know what it is, so why is it important for sales?

Sales Leaders should be leading huddles with their sales managers and sales managers should be leading huddles with their salespeople.  When everyone on the huddle has an equally exciting - albeit different - opportunity to report on, you have achieved a Quadruple Ditto.  When exciting new opportunities are few and far between, there won't be any Quadruple Dittos, but when the entire sales team is stuffing their pipeline with new, high-quality opportunities, you'll find yourself in Quadruple Ditto territory.

The key, of course, is that the opportunities are of high quality.  For help defining high-quality opportunities, please see The Sure Fire Way to Know Which Sales Opportunities are the Best Opportunities.

You can also call the Quadruple Ditto after 4 salespeople or more have reported on and met or exceeded each of their daily KPI's.

I'm going to achieve another version of a Quadruple Ditto in today's article with more than 4 outbound links.  I've already provided two and here are three more.

Josh Lev wrote this helpful article on the psychology of selling and I think it's worth checking out.

Pete Caputa, VP at Hubspot, posted this terrific article on 7 bad actors on every sales team. It appears on the Hubspot sales blog.  See all my articles here.

Stu Heincke, author of How to Get a Meeting with Anyone, interviewed me for his Chicago Radio Show.  Listen to the Podcast below. 

 

Topics: Dave Kurlan, verne harnish, Rockefeller Habits, pete caputa, scaling up, josh levs, daily huddle

Verne Harnish's Rant and 3 Sales Leadership Issues

Posted by Dave Kurlan on Wed, Feb 25, 2015 @ 09:02 AM

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The one newsletter that I never fail to read each week, rain, 7 feet of snow, sub-zero temperatures, or shine, is Verne Harnish's Weekly Insights (subscribe here).  If you are not familiar with Verne (The Growth Guy), he wrote Mastering the Rockefeller Habits and his latest book, Scaling Up: How a Few Companies Make it and the Rest Don't, is another must-read best seller.

Yesterday, I received his weekly newsletter and just loved the message in his rant.  I asked him if I could reprint the rant, not so much to help him fill his upcoming Leadership  Summit, but to illustrate how important it is to get the words right.  Here is the rant:

Ruckusmaker Day -- today would have been Steve Jobs' 60th birthday. In honor of Steve, marketing guru Seth Godin has declared it the first annual "Ruckusmaker Day." Seth announced this yesterday in his blog, encouraging people to have a point of view, the genius capacity he pins on Jobs. Take one minute to read Seth's inspirational blog and then speak up about something.

OK, so my Ruckus! -- or really a question. Given that Mark Cuban reads three hours per day; given that Warren Buffett reads 500 pages per day; given that Mark Zuckerberg has set his personal goal in 2015 to read a book every two weeks; given that the most successful are learners; and given that we work tirelessly to identify the best biz authors of the best dozen books (Lean, Sales, Tribes, Billionaires, etc.), from the thousands printed each year, and bring these authors (listed below) to an affordable resort setting where you can absorb their ideas in 48 hours! - my question - why are some of you missing this opportunity to learn and network with some of the best mid-market scale-ups around the world? Are you nuts (OK, maybe a little strong, but I'm passionate about the power of learning)? We see the same super successful teams each time - so wondering if you simply don't feel invited or welcome. Please email me at vharnish@gazelles.com - I would love to learn. And read on to see if I can make a case for dropping everything and getting you and your team to our Summits twice/year - four days out of 365!

But We Can't Implement Any More Stuff -- yes, we're all busy - and I imagine Zuckerberg and Buffett and Cuban have plenty on their plates. So why do they keep learning? It's about making sure you avoid the mistakes that come with NOT knowing. Nothing creative can come out of your brain that wasn't put in first. And learning isn't linear. It's about piling in as much as you can (Bill Gates' infamous Think Weeks) and then letting the magic happen. I never know when I'm going to need to access an idea - but I have to know about it in the first place.

We Don't Repeat Content -- miss a Summit; miss an entire body of knowledge. We don't invite a speaker back unless they have new and original content aka a new book (like David Meerman Scott's new book on sales). And the goal is to bring gurus that have gone deep in a narrow topic, like Adam Grant with givers and takers. We promise more practical ideas per minute to scale up your business and life than any other executive education program you can find in the world (and several CEOs have tested this and confirmed).

Village of Gurus -- Our belief is that it takes a "village of gurus" to scale-up a company. The Rockefeller Habits 2.0 doesn't have all the answers. Instead, it provides a framework upon which additional ideas can be layered. The Summits expose leaders to the authors of the most recent books, like The Self-Made Billionaire Effect, which just published a month ago. And it's much more powerful (and fun) to learn directly from the authors - and then read the book for additional details if warranted.

I spoke at the first Sales & Marketing Summit and heard all of the other great speakers and strongly believe that there is no other event where you can learn from as many experts as The Fortune Leadership Summit.

I feel the same way that Verne does when we don't have standing-room only attendance at our powerful and unique annual Sales Leadership Intensives, when we don't have overflow attendance for our helpful sales recruiting and selection webinars (register for the free February 26, 45-minute webinar) and when we aren't overwhelmed in response to the other offers that take place during the year.  

My experience is that sales leaders, the very people in my audience who need the most help, have 3 challenges preventing them from getting the help they need:

  • SOW - They feel as though it is a sign of weakness to get the help they need,
  • KIA - They don't realize they need the help because they think they know it all,
  • DIY - Their super-sized egos get in the way and make them feel like they can "do it yourself."

You know how much you want and need to grow.  You know why.  You know what you need to do.  But you may need help building the sales culture, finding the people, integrating the systems and processes and training and coaching the people who must execute your plan.  The help is out there and taking advantage of it versus attempting it yourself is like the difference between taking a transatlantic cruise ship and taking a transatlantic flight.  What's holding you back?

Topics: Dave Kurlan, sales leadership, verne harnish, self-limting beliefs, the growth guy, fortune growth summit

Top 4 Questions, 2 Words of Advice about Sales CRM

Posted by Dave Kurlan on Mon, Feb 17, 2014 @ 07:02 AM

demoA company's executive team can have a positive or negative influence on the performance of the sales team.  Each member of your executive team can impact sales in some small, or not so small way.  Today, I want to talk about Chief Technology Officers, VP's and Directors of IT.  At first glance, you might not think that IT has much of an impact on sales and you would be correct.  However, they do have a significant role.

Let's take a stutter step and use Application Engineers as an example.  When AE's are introduced into the sales process, many of them want to take over.  After all, they are the experts, right?  A best case scenario for using an AE is for them to speak when asked to speak, address only those questions asked, make sure that the customer sees that the fit and function will exceed expectations, and return to silence.  It's not so much that we need to teach AE's how to sell, as much as we want to teach them what their role is in the sales process and how to stay out of the way, until their expertise is required.   

Back to the Senior IT leaders.  When companies are considering and selecting CRM applications, the choice needs to be made by the people who will be reviewing the data on the dashboard, reviewing the reports and holding salespeople accountable for using the application.  Consider the following:

  • The application is hosted in the cloud - not on the client's server or the employee's desktop.
  • The information in the CRM is typically not sensitive company information.
  • In most companies, the CRM application can stand on its own and does not tie into other systems.
  • CRM applications are prolific and, if choosing carefully, out of the box capability is good.  IT does not need to design and program a proprietary system.
  • Most issues with CRM revolve around customization and user friendliness - not compatibility - and again, when you choose the right CRM, neither of those should be issues.

So why is IT getting in the way when it comes to CRM?  The following are some of the explanations I have heard:

  • "My CTO doesn't like this application."
  • "IT doesn't have time to support a move to a new CRM right now."
  • "The IT Director is concerned about security."
  • "IT believes this will require too much support on their end."

In most cases, IT shouldn't even be involved in the selection of today's CRM applications because they are hosted in the cloud and require no local IT support.  In this case, the way that IT should support Sales is by staying out of the way, like an application engineer in the sales process.  Let Sales choose the application.  Why would anyone care which application IT likes?  They're not going to use it, review it, coach from it, hold anyone accountable to it, train anyone to use it or customize it.  They might not have to do anything except maintain a list of users and passwords.

They should go back to running the IT department.  Keep the servers running.  Keep the users happy.  Keep the software updated.  Make sure there is enough storage space.  Prevent viruses from disrupting work flow.  Help users with usability issues.  But please don't try to select CRM for us, OK?

Better yet, let an outside sales expert, who knows your company and has familiarity with all of the CRM applications on the market, recommend an application for you.  When you look at CRM's, you can watch their demos, live and recorded.  "Look at everything it does - wow!"  But the demos do a great job of hiding customization requirements, functionality issues and usability challenges.

The 4 biggest questions should be:

  1. How much money will you have to spend to get it to do what you need it to do?
  2. How difficult will it be to get your salespeople to embrace it and live inside it?
  3. What will it take to get your sales process, timelines, milestones and labels integrated?
  4. How long will it take to get the dashboard to report what you want reported?

In most cases, the people who know the answers to these questions and can be truthful about them, are the sales experts from outside your company.  Not your IT people, and certainly not the developers of the CRM applications.  And it's not your job to become an expert on all of these applications - that would take up dozens of hours of your valuable coaching time.

Get IT out of the way - it's not their problem or responsibility.

Get a sales expert in there - we'll know what to recommend.

And for crying out loud - stop attempting to protect the investment you made in a CRM application that was a mistake!  It cost a fortune, has features you aren't using, is so complicated that you can't get your salespeople to use it, and costs another fortune every time you want to tweak it.  Cut your losses and just move to an application that will work out of the box!  

Chris Mott wrote about the role of the CFO in driving sales and Dennis Connelly wrote about the HR Director's challenge in supporting sales.

This is from Verne Harnish - The Growth Guy: Free 19th Feb 2pm Webinar -- Dave Kurlan, author of Baseline Selling, is founder of the #1 sales assessment tool in the world. We're hosting his 48 minute "Baseline Selling" online seminar for free Feb 19 at 2pm (2pm YOUR time wherever you are in the world). Note, the first few minutes are quite basic, as are the first steps in any sale process. However, as the sales process moves toward closing, the logic of Kurlan's 4 steps become increasingly important. Every time I watch his seminar it reminds me of some key selling point that is worth listening to the entire program - I picked up one idea that helped me land a significant contract last week (I play it in the background while I crank through email). This is the start of a bi-weekly complimentary executive education series we're offering insights readers through 2014. Let this free growth series drip irrigate ideas into your brain. Here is the link, then

  1. Sign up at the event registration page (name, last name, email, and phone).

  2. You will receive an email with a customized link

  3. On the day of the event click or copy/paste the link from step #2 and that's it.

NOTE: it will air for free from 2pm - 2:48pm 19th Feb whatever time zone you're in. Otherwise, there is a small charge if you want to watch it any other time. 

Register for Leading the Ideal Sales Force Part 2, on March 12 at 11 AM ET.  (Here is a link to the recording of Leading the Ideal Sales Force Part 1 in case you were unable to attend. 

 

WEBINAR SERIES - Baseline Selling Open Enrollment

Begins February 20 for 12 Weeks
More Information: http://hub.am/1fhbMvv 
WEBINAR - How to Get the Most from OMG's Sales Candidate Analyzer Tool
February 26, 11 AM ET
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SALES 2.0 CONFERENCE IN PHILADELPHIA - What to Ask To Determine If You Need to Implement Sales Force Transformation
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ECSELL SALES COACHING SUMMIT IN CHARLOTTE NC - What Does Commitment to Sales Success Mean?
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EO AUSTIN TX - How to Shorten Your Sales Cycle and Close More Sales
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Topics: Dave Kurlan, sales process, verne harnish, CRM selection, CRM Application, Sales integration

John Robinson's Secret to Overcoming All Sales Obstacles

Posted by Dave Kurlan on Tue, Apr 24, 2012 @ 10:04 AM

john robinsonObjective Management Group just completed it's annual international conference for Partners.  Normally, I wouldn't write about it, but this event was different.  Not most of it, but one magical hour of it.

We have had great, world-reknowned keynote speakers in past years like, Guy Kawasaki, Dan Millman, Robert Kriegel, and Verne Harnish.  They've been thoughtful, entertaining, insightful and helpful.  But this year, we were fortunate to get John Robinson to speak.  Who?  Never heard of him?  Let me take a moment to introduce you to John.  First, please watch this 26-second video on YouTube.

John is a very likable, intelligent, entertaining, engaging, motivated, savvy, resourceful, determined, resilient and successful 42-year-old.  John is just like you and me in every way and exactly like what you want all of your salespeople to be.  As a matter of fact, he was a successful General Sales Manager at a television station in upstate NY.  He is just like us in every way except one.  He was born without full arms and legs - a congenital amputee - and has faced more resistance and obstacles than we could ever know.

Sure, you can get the obvious message that, "If he can do it, you can do it."  It goes much deeper than that.  You can even get the message, "After seeing John Robinson, what possible excuse could you possibly have for not succeeding?"  His actual message is, "Get Off of Your Knees."

But when it comes to sales success, I took away an even deeper message.

He said, "Every obstacle is an opportunity."  

The difference between John and everyone else is that he doesn't merely say an obstacle is an opportunity; he believes that they are opportunities and as a result, behaves as if they are opportunities.  Whether you think in terms of strategy or tactics, consider how an approach changes depending on whether you believe the target or subject is an obstacle or an opportunity.  For which would you rather plan?

If you simply eliminate the concept of obstacles, and approach all situations as opportunities, your entire world changes, doesn't it?

That is the real magic that John Robinson can manifest!  Thank you, John.

Topics: Dave Kurlan, sales challenges, sales objections, Guy Kawasaki, verne harnish, john robinson, robert kriegel, dan millman

The Top 5 Factors to Predict Sales Turnover

Posted by Dave Kurlan on Fri, Mar 05, 2010 @ 05:03 AM

Yesterday, I began a discussion about sales longevity or, if you prefer, turnover.  What are the factors that lead to turnover and how much of that can be predicted?  Start with yesterday's article on How Long Will a Salesperson Stick?

Get ready for a discussion that is backed by data - more Science of Sales Force Management stuff!  Speaking of science, my guest on this week's episode of Meet the Sales Experts, Lee Levitt, had a lot to say about Pipeline Coverage and Shape, metrics and 5 powerful tips for Sales Force Effectiveness.  Click here to listen to the show.

Salesperson Longevity - What Did We Find?

I mined the data and it wasn't easy!  Some of the factors I expected to see just didn't materialize. For example, I assumed that money motivation would make a difference.  Wrong.  Not even a tiny difference. A money motivated salesperson is not even 1% more likely to stick than one who isn't motivated by money.  I assumed that salespeople who were paid mostly on salary might tend to stick around longer than their colleagues who were paid mostly by commission.  Wrong.  I thought that there was a chance that stronger salespeople stuck around longer than weaker salespeople.  Wrong again.

So what did I learn?  Here are the Top Five Factors to Predict Sales Turnover / Longevity

The most important factor in predicting sales longevity is --- EXPERIENCE!  Salespeople with at least 5 years of sales experience are far more likely to stick than those without 5 years of experience.

Factor #2 has little to do with the salesperson but everything to do with Sales Longevity.  It's how closely sales management will manage the salesperson.  Salespeople who were not closely managed simply didn't stick around as long.  I had to draw a conclusion relative to whether the turnover was voluntary or involuntary. I concluded that salespeople who were more or less ignored and also under performing likely reached a point where the company gave up and terminated them. I also concluded that salespeople who performed but were ignored probably left on their own.  But whether or not you agree with my conclusions, don't miss the bigger point.  Closely managing your salespeople leads to sales longevity in your company.

Factor #3 is the compensation plan.  Salespeople who are compensated mostly by commission are more likely to stick than salespeople who are compensated mostly by salary.  Why? Salaried salespeople and those with limited bonus opportunities, reach a point where they need more money.  Does this contradict the money motivation finding?  No.  This is need versus want.  They'll leave when they need more money.  Money motivated salespeople simply want more money and sell more to earn it.

Factor #4 is a reverse factor finding.  Huh?  Objective Management Group (OMG) has a powerful finding called the Figure it Out Factor or FIOF.  It's a score that accurately predicts how quickly a new salesperson will ramp up in their new positions.  A score of greater than 75 identifies candidates in this group.  Well, these same salespeople, the ones who will ramp up more quickly, are LESS likely to stick!  Yes, they'll have an immediate impact, but they will tend to not have sales longevity in your company.  Salespeople with low FIOF scores are the ones who are most likely to stick.  Slow starters, big finishers!

Factor #5 is another reverse factor finding.  OMG has another score called Sales Quotient (SQ) which allows companies to rank their hirable candidates. Strong salespeople have SQ's over 135 and the elite have scores over 145.  But these real strong salespeople - A Players - aren't the ones who are most likely to stick.  Rather, salespeople with SQ's between 110 and 130 - B Players - have the greatest sales longevity.

Summary:The good news is that there are five specific factors that allow us to predict sales longevity.  The bad news is that these factors are inconsistent with the factors that allow us to identify and predict who the top performers will be.  So it raises a new question.  Should you be striving to hire A Players - those with high Sales Quotient and Ramp up Scores or should you be hiring for Sales Longevity - B Players who will stick around longer?

Verne Harnish, the Growth Guy, and I had this very discussion  over email this morning.  He said, "small companies can do both".  He said that "entrepreneurial firms should go after experience - we don't have time to ramp up someone - let the big companies train!" He also said that "companies should go for A players with more than 5 years of experience", something that  both Neil Rackham (SPIN Selling and Rethinking the Sales Force) and Brad and Geoff Smart, (Topgrading) have been saying right along.  However, our data shows that only 16% of the A players with experience stick for more than two years. And that brings us back to the original question. 

What do you think - A's or Longevity?  Should the answer be a direct relation to the length of your sales cycle?  Should you go for longevity when you have a long sales cycle and for A's when you have a short sales cycle? We're interested in what you have to say!

Topics: sales assessment, sales recruiting, sales management, sales candidates, sales turnover, Neil Rackham, topgrading, verne harnish, money motivated salespeople, salespeople, sales experience

Differentiating a Pricing Strategy from a Sales Strategy

Posted by Dave Kurlan on Fri, May 01, 2009 @ 13:05 PM

Do you subscribe to Verne's Insights - 10 Minutes with the Growth Guy - Verne Harnish?  You should.  It's the best newsletter I get - one I actually read each week!  In today's issue Verne wrote that his favorite quote from last week's Sales & Marketing Summit was Mark Burton's, "Discounting is the crack cocaine for business today".  He also shared that "instead, Burton says companies can use a 'good, better, best' strategy to provide various pricing levels without simply giving away margin."

Wait a minute!!!

Let's differentiate between this very sound pricing strategy yet unsound selling strategy.  From a pricing perspective, this strategy allows you to effectively position your company, brand, products and services wherever you need them to be, based on markets, competition, reputation, quality and business strategy.

However, from a selling perspective, never provide your prospect with even two, let alone three options.  It's difficult enough to close business in a timely manner today and you certainly don't want to be the cause of a decision making delay.  

Let's assume that your salespeople have identified the compelling reasons why their prospect would buy, and buy from you, rather than your competition.  Let's assume they have also positioned themselves as experts, established value, and learned how much their prospect will spend to solve their problem.  It is only then that your salespeople will present both a needs and cost appropriate solution.  If they have effectively met each of the above criteria, then in their expert opinion, there can only be a single ideal solution that is both needs and cost appropriate.  More than one and they didn't listen effectively.  More than one and they may appear uncertain.  More than one and they have provided their prospect a reason to think it over.  Less isn't more, one is more.

Price with options, sell with certainty.

(c) Copyright 2009 Dave Kurlan

Topics: Dave Kurlan, Salesforce, verne harnish, mark burton, pricing, sales strategy, salespeople

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Best-Selling Author, Keynote Speaker and Sales Thought Leader.  Dave Kurlan's Understanding the Sales Force Blog has earned medals for the Top Sales & Marketing Blog award for eight consecutive years. This article earned a Bronze Medal for Top Sales Blog post in 2016, this one earned a Silver medal for 2017, and this article earned Silver for 2018. Read more about Dave.

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